My opionions and whatever other insane idea I think of
What Extreme Punishment, It don't exist!
Published on January 7, 2005 By msladydeath In Politics
Extreme Punishment, what a joke! The only extreme punishment in the US would be the Death Penalty, and the odds of a murderer actually being A)Put on death row and B)Actually being executed are soo low, it's not worth the thought.

Extreme Punishment wouldn't be 3 square meals a day, bed with clean linens and a laundry service, cable TV, Utilities, "yard privileges" such as gyms, basketball courts, etc. All for free! Oh yea, I forgot the free college education and/or GED, and job training, health care, all free, then on top of all that, get an allowance. And Low security Federal prisons are even nicer to live in.

Now, deter that, rather hard to do. Why do murderers and rapists and drug dealers and such need a gym, or cable TV, or a TV at all for that matter, They can get their news from the radio piped over the intercom system for all I care. Not going to deter crime when they can live better in prison than on the streets for starters.

Hey if I rob the liqueur store, I might go to prison, oh well. Now try this, remove the non essential elements from the prisons for starters (the food can taste like crewel) and bring in some corporal punishment! The Nuns had it right smacking unruly kids knuckles with a ruler. It's obvious that rehabilitation don't work for to many (not saying all) so why bother? Why give a murderer a college degree? what purpose does it serve? Why do Convicts need porno mags? And why do I have to pay for stupid appeals? No new evidence, no appeal (giant period).

There is nothing wrong with "Tent City", pink boxer shorts and giant vacancy signs, or even chain gangs.

"Yet if the prisoners housed in Arizona's Maricopa County tent city jails are complaining, they have some good reasons. At that facility the incarcerated are fed only two meals a day, with green bologna sometimes appearing on the menu. They are quartered in outdoor tents under sweltering conditions, and they sleep on cots which lack pillows. They work on chain gangs. And they wear pink underwear. " http://www.mcso.org/submenu.asp?file=tentcity

Sheriff Joe Arpaio has a good thing going down there, I know I would sure think twice if I knew I was going someplace like that. Especially since I live in Nebraska.

But also, since we are talking about crime prevention, Health and Human services needs to get their act together, in an effort to prevent children from become offenders, namely abused/neglected children and children being brought up in a criminal family. What would also help this would be no more children visiting their incarcerated parents (ouch). Children raised with criminals, learn the ways of criminals, and since crime does sometimes pay, and prison is easier than earning a living...... you can draw your own conclusions.

Summary, smack em with switches once month for the duration of their sentence and see if they want to come back.


Comments (Page 1)
on Jan 07, 2005
it's "deterring" and "deter"

spell your titles right and more people might read the articles

Oh, and I think your pro-torture stance is pretty frightening. Check out this little tidbit:

Amendment VIII
Excessive bail shall not be required, nor excessive fines imposed, nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted.

on Jan 07, 2005
I have never been able to spell.

And It's not a pro torture stance, torture would be putting them on the Rack, or hanging them by metal cuffs down the side of a wall with their feet not touching the ground, or all manner of actually tortures I could think of that in the distant past, have been used.

The question is then, how to deter crime, esspecially when the prisons are just as good (or better) than a hotel. When the prisoners have more rights than their victims. What does it say to the public, especially the poor that don't have cable TV when convicted Felons live better than them. The many prisons even allow them to have their own selection of clothing.

If you don't like my idea of bringing back the paddle then make your own suggestion on how to deter future criminals.
on Jan 07, 2005
Reply #1 By: Myrrander - 1/7/2005 1:39:51 PM
it's "deterring" and "deter"


yer better than this myrrrr
on Jan 07, 2005
Amendment VIII
Excessive bail shall not be required, nor excessive fines imposed, nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted.


Come on............ A million dollor bail to anyone but a millionaire is excessive, but that impossed alla time..
on Jan 07, 2005
Oh yea, I forgot the free college education and/or GED, and job training, health care, all free


What would you rather have an ex-con doing. Welding or B&E? These programs are provided to prevent them from falling back into the same life that got them in prison when they get out. Say you have 2 inmates, one who has kicked his drug addiction, and got job training to work in industrial welding, and gets a 9 to 5 job upon his release, and one who has not kicked his drug habits, and has no job and no drug money. Which do you think is more likely to break into your house because he needs money for drugs?
on Jan 07, 2005
I think you misunderstand the point of incarceration. It's primary purpose is to remove freedom from the prisoners. It's not designed to punish or to rehabilitate (which goes some way to explain why such attempts are nearly always failures). The level of care provided in prisons is of course up to the people who pay for it, but discomfort and chain gangs aren't really a required component of the 'limited freedom' punishment.
on Jan 07, 2005
It has been proven by the criminologists Schumann (1987) and Mathiesson (1990) that the severity of the sentence has no effect on deterrence. Severity only deters small offences (like traffic violations).

Governments constantly enact tougher laws against crime because people like you are under the impression it will fix something, or that crime is getting worse. And do you realise that most of those people will get out one day and reintegrate society? They need to be socialized, not punished severely.
on Jan 07, 2005
Be prepared for the person nodding in agreement next to you to hang your ass if they're on a civil jury. People say one thing then do another when it gets down to it.
on Jan 07, 2005
how do you plan to socialize them? In prison, who do they socialize with, other felons. What happens when they get out on parol and figure out that they can't offord the standard of living they had in prison? Especially since most employers will not hire a felon. Especially a violent felon or a theif.

Nearly 33% of State prison releases in 1999 were drug offenders, 25% were violent offenders and 31% were property offenders.

Among State parole discharges in 2000, 41% successfully completed their term of supervision; relatively unchanged since 1990.
Link

Also notice that over 70% of property offenders reoffend within 3 yrs, and over 60% total reoffend in 3 yrs. I can't find statistics that go longer than 3 yrs. Wheeee that sure sounds like the education is working.

Why is this a concern of mine, my EX is currently serving 5-8 yrs for B&E, and has been in and out of the system so many times since the age of 8 it's not even funny. Every time he gets out, he "changed for the better" and that lasts a week or so. Crazy8 has been in prison 3 times (I don't know if he is now or not) all for sex with minors. Of the group of people I used to hang out with, most are in/have been in prison and show no signs of reform. And the few I knew that managed to stay out for any amout of time, just learned how not to get caught. They all talked about how easy prison was and how well they had it there. Basic training was harder than Prison.

So how bout ideas.
on Jan 07, 2005
Good points Dharmarl.
on Jan 07, 2005

Reply #6 By: cactoblasta - 1/7/2005 8:20:13 PM
I think you misunderstand the point of incarceration. It's primary purpose is to remove freedom from the prisoners. It's not designed to punish or to rehabilitate (which goes some way to explain why such attempts are nearly always failures). The level of care provided in prisons is of course up to the people who pay for it, but discomfort and chain gangs aren't really a required component of the 'limited freedom' punishment.


um, remove freedom? Prison isn't for punishment? That's all news to me. I feel so much better knowing that they aren't being punished for murdering my friend. It's nice to know that murderers and rapests should have all the comforts of home. Felons don't need to earn their keep, and the taxpayers get to pay their way.

Average inmate cost approximately $20,100 per year Link

The Tent city in AZ costs $7 a day per inmate, and inmates have to pay $1 a day for food.
on Jan 07, 2005

It's primary purpose is to remove freedom from the prisoners. It's not designed to punish or to rehabilitate (which goes some way to explain why such attempts are nearly always failures).


This is patently false as any entry level Criminal Justice class will teach.

The real debate centers around whether prison sentences are for rehabilitation or deterrence. There is significant data to support both stances.

on Jan 07, 2005

I think you misunderstand the point of incarceration. It's primary purpose is to remove freedom from the prisoners.


People are sent to jail/prison as punishment for a crime.  They are not sent there to be rehabilitated.  There is no additional punishment whilst incarcerated, the incarceration is supposed to be the punishement in and of itself. (*the preceeding was courtesy of my husband, the military jail warden*)


I understand that we need to get people out of the lifestyles that contributed to them offending in the first place, but...just because you teach a man to fish doesn't mean he's going to utilize that skill and feed himself for the rest of his life, dig?   Sometimes people who can fish think it's easier to go take someone else's catch.  (that was all very cryptic, but I'm slightly sleep deprived right now...I hope someone 'got it')


I personally think that Joe Arapaio has the right idea.  If you don't like the conditions at the Maricopa County Jail, make sure you don't do anything to earn yourself another stay there.


 


 

on Jan 08, 2005
There is significant data to support both stances.


No there isn't! Show me one, just one, modern researcher/criminologist (or even just a study) that believes deterrence works for serious offences.
on Jan 08, 2005
No there isn't! Show me one, just one, modern researcher/criminologist (or even just a study) that believes deterrence works for serious offences.


http://www.ncpa.org/studies/s229/s229.html Link here is one.....


http://www.leviz.com/protection/article_concealed_weapons_deter_violent_crimes.html
Link
here is two......

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